[EPISODE 52] Heaven's Gate Cult: Between Devotion and Delusion

[00:00:00] Kyle Risi: This mental and physical preparation away from food was important because giving into the human desire for food once transformation had taken place would be potentially lethal to your alien being.

[00:00:13] Adam Cox: Right. 

[00:00:14] Kyle Risi: Because the alien form could only obtain energy by absorbing direct sunlight. 

[00:00:20] Adam Cox: I see. So not only is this a cult, it also doubles up as a weight loss program. 

[00:00:24] Kyle Risi: Yes, it does. And if you sunned your bum. You'd just get more nutrients, because more sunlight could absorb through your anus than it does through your skin.

[00:00:36] Kyle Risi: So, a lot of the time, they would just be kind of like, face down, butt in the air, kind of sunning their bum. 

[00:00:43] Adam Cox: Are you serious? 

[00:00:44] Kyle Risi: No, I'm not serious. 

[00:00:45] Adam Cox: I mean, it's a cult. Anything goes.

[00:01:16] Kyle Risi: Welcome to the Compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. We're a weekly variety podcast where each week I tell Adam Cox all about a topic I think he'll find both fascinating and intriguing.

[00:01:28] Kyle Risi: We dive into the stories pulled from the darker corners of true crime, the annuls of your old unread history books, and the who's who of extraordinary people. We give you just enough information to stand your ground at any social gathering. 

[00:01:44] Kyle Risi: I'm your host this week, Kyle Risi. 

[00:01:46] Kyle Risi: And I'm your co host, Adam Cox.

[00:01:49] Kyle Risi: And on today's episode of the Compendium, we are diving into an assembly of blind faith and the quest for celestial salvation. Oh, interesting. 

[00:02:00] Kyle Risi: What do you make of that? I saw you creating the artwork for this, so I already know what it's 

[00:02:03] Kyle Risi: about. Oh, do you, you sneaky 

[00:02:05] Kyle Risi: bastard? And I'm excited for it, though.

[00:02:07] Kyle Risi: I'm excited. 

[00:02:09] Kyle Risi: So As you know, it's been a long minute since we did a cult episode, so I'm really excited to be adding another one of these to our collection. And a quick warning to all of our listeners, as of course is the responsible thing to do, today's episode does touch on themes of suicide, so if you feel you want to give this one a miss, then we completely understand.

[00:02:30] Kyle Risi: But what makes today's episode so interesting and unique from the other cult stories that we've done in the past is its unique blend of Christianity, Star Trek, and of course, a good old fashioned human genital mutilation. 

[00:02:46] Adam Cox: They're the three things I look forward to.

[00:02:48] Adam Cox: In a cult story. In a cult 

[00:02:49] Kyle Risi: story. Or just in a general episode. Or just in a general episode. Hahaha, dude. Yeah? Yeah? I mean, you were really mortified when we brought up that Gypsy Rose's boyfriend, Nick Goudrejon, was openly masturbating in a McDonald's. You were shook! But this, you're like, mm, yeah, this is, this is my jam.

[00:03:05] Kyle Risi: I don't know if I'd go that far. Today's cult episode is probably best known for its purple shrouds, their nike shoes and their obsession with aliens and of course the very tragic fate that ultimately was bestowed upon them after a 27 year wait for the vessel that would eventually take them up to heaven.

[00:03:29] Kyle Risi: On today's episode of The Compendium, I'm going to be telling you about the story of the Heaven's Gate Cult. So, you have heard of this story before, what do you know? So, 

[00:03:39] Adam Cox: yeah, it's been a while since I learnt about this, but what I remember It does involve aliens. Finally, finally an episode of aliens.

[00:03:49] Adam Cox: Yeah. Um, and also the trainers that they, they all wore these night trainers, which is kind of like the, was quite synonymous with this cult. That's right. Um, they had this weird dress sense, which I don't want to spoil it too much. I'll let you kind of tell us all about that. Um, and like any cult, it was just.

[00:04:05] Adam Cox: Corrupt and, um, yeah, 

[00:04:07] Kyle Risi: weird. Well actually I think there's something to be dispelled there. When we talk about the corruption side of things, I really didn't get the sense that corruption was at the very heart of the story in terms of like the acquiring of wealth and assets and Extracting everything they can from their followers

[00:04:22] Adam Cox: So I remember they did let some people leave the cult from what I recall

[00:04:26] Kyle Risi: it's more of a case that some of them sobered up. And they were like, why am I dressed like this? Do you know what I mean? I look ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, they could come and go, but of course they still employed all the different tactics that you can imagine. That a cult leader would adopt in terms of keeping people inside the cult by brainwashing them, telling them that there's no other alternative outside.

[00:04:47] Kyle Risi: If you want to go out there with the bad guys, the ones that persecuting you and not believing you and ridiculing you for your beliefs, then fine, go out there, but what kind of life will you have? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So like, in that sense, it's a bounded choice, right?

[00:05:01] Kyle Risi: It's wrapped up in this kind of manipulation. So, yeah, it's a really interesting story. But also there's just so many fascinating facets to today's story, but one of the most interesting is the relics that it leaves behind. 

[00:05:13] Kyle Risi: One of them being one of the oldest original websites that still exists on the internet even today. And that's heavensgate. com And after all these years, people can still go and visit this website And as far as I'm aware, it's become just this relic that's left over from the story Which I just find so interesting Like, who's maintaining that website? That is the question Because someone must be maintaining it, like, I want to know these people that are maintaining this website.

[00:05:39] Adam Cox: Yeah, someone's paying that hosting fee every year. 

[00:05:41] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly. Where's that money coming from? But I guess because it's become kind of part of cult history, and not cult as in the, a cult, like in just cult. Popular history. Yeah. then I think maybe there are just people out there that are willing to keep it alive.

[00:05:55] Kyle Risi: Because some people want to join today and I doubt it's because they want to join because of course what they believe, it's because it's such a famous story, right? It's such a relic of history. 

[00:06:04] Adam Cox: But why are people still want to join this cult rather than, I don't know, say the Jonestown cult, which is horrific?

[00:06:11] Kyle Risi: Well, because I don't think there's anyone left in the Jonestown cult, right? At the end of this story, there's still a lot of people that are still alive, and we're left behind. But anyway, we're going to get into it. 

[00:06:21] Kyle Risi: But before we kick off, as we do at the top of every episode, shall we do 

[00:06:26] Adam Cox: All The Latest 

[00:06:32] Kyle Risi: This is a segment of our show where we catch up on all the things we've discovered over the last seven days. From weird and bizarre news, quick facts, or the stupid shenanigans amongst the human species. This week it's my turn to go first, so here we go!

[00:06:48] Kyle Risi: So to kick things off, we have a public service announcement. Mm-Hmm. Because we're coming up to one year now, aren't we? 52 episodes. And we are here to announce that we will be taking a break, but only for, what, three weeks because we're off to sunny Australia, I can't wait, but we thought that this would be a perfect opportunity for us to kind of just take a break, take a step back and come back for another year of the compendium, stronger, uh, Powerful, cleaner, and better.

[00:07:19] Kyle Risi: Well, we hope. Okay. 

[00:07:20] Adam Cox: It could be just more of the same old crap. 

[00:07:23] Kyle Risi: Hey! I'm joking, I'm joking. That's why people tune in, because it's crap. What are they yabbering on 

[00:07:28] Adam Cox: about this week? Yeah. But no, it gives us an opportunity just to, yeah, improve the show, and Um, we're already planning some of the things for next year, so it's all very 

[00:07:36] Kyle Risi: exciting. That's true. Do you know what? I'm glad that we are coming back because there was a moment in time where I thought kind of we've achieved a year, let's just kind of call it a day, but actually it made me feel really sad inside to think that we were potentially going to be giving up. So I'm really glad that we're going to come back but we are going to be coming back even better than before 

[00:07:53] Kyle Risi: So just a bit of polishing up tightening up here or there a few changes to the format But we'll be back with the same stories promising to give you everything that you need to know To stand your ground at a social gathering.

[00:08:05] Kyle Risi: Yeah, 

[00:08:05] otherwise 

[00:08:06] Adam Cox: what are you going to do? Just stand 

[00:08:07] Kyle Risi: there? Shuffling. I hate that though. I hate that. It's when you're in a club and you're with a bunch of people and the music is blaring and it's too loud for you to even talk to anyone and you don't know where to look, you just keep sipping your drink because it's just so awkward. Man, I'm so glad I'm not in my 20s clubbing anymore. 

[00:08:24] Adam Cox: Yeah. What do you mean? You fall asleep most of the time. 

[00:08:27] Kyle Risi: because I'm so nervous. But don't worry, because in the three weeks that we'll be taking off, we will be running Some of our favorite episodes that we released over the last year.

[00:08:35] Kyle Risi: So if you do have any suggestions on which ones are your favorite you can connect with us at our website at thecompendiumpodcast. com and leave your suggestions there. Join our mailing list, or you can reach out to us on Instagram. And yeah, maybe your favorite will be rerun.

[00:08:51] Kyle Risi: But we will be back! But right, on to All the Latest Things. So Adam, for my All the Latest Things this week, I, it's another vent, who are you angry at now? Well the cost of living crisis, it's just sparring out of control! 

[00:09:04] Adam Cox: Okay, that's a Fair thing to be angry at. 

[00:09:06] Kyle Risi: Everything's so spenny. These days. Don't say that. What? 

[00:09:10] Adam Cox: Spenny. I hate that word. Why? I just. 

[00:09:13] Kyle Risi: It's my new thing. I'm in with the in crowd, you know, I'm like a Gen Zer, you know.

[00:09:17] Kyle Risi: Spenny. Spenny. Okay. Everything's too pricey. How much is our shopping bill at the moment, for a weekly shop, for the two of us?

[00:09:24] Kyle Risi: Mmm, we're pretty 

[00:09:25] Adam Cox: frugal on our shopping, but it's about 60 to 70 quid. 

[00:09:28] Kyle Risi: See, I remember seven years ago? Our food bill was 40 quid a month. Sorry, not a month, a week, a week! We lived off beans. It was 40 quid a week, so that's 20 quid increase in seven years, I bet like, the brunt of that has come since, obviously, Uh, lockdown started because I feel like we don't have that many luxuries in the house. We don't have snacky foods. We just pretty much have everything that we need and we're out of food by the end of the week. Yeah. And then there's also rent. It's just so ridiculous. George was telling me the other day that he's moving into a new apartment and just for a standard two bedroom, he's paying 1, 200 quid a month, which just to me is just astronomical for a two bedroom house. I remember back when we were living on King Street in that awesome middle floor apartment.

[00:10:09] Kyle Risi: We had two rooms, we had a massive lounge, a huge kitchen, and that was what at the time was like 680 quid a month. George is paying 1200 quid a month, I think that's just ridiculous.

[00:10:19] Kyle Risi: Yeah, 

[00:10:20] Adam Cox: compared to how much space you get. There's no garden or anything with 

[00:10:23] Kyle Risi: that. No, exactly. It's just a flat. And so I don't understand how people can cope with rent hikes like this. How are they going to be saving money to set aside to pay for a mortgage or a down payment on a house?

[00:10:37] Kyle Risi: I just don't get how that's even possible nowadays. 

[00:10:39] Kyle Risi: So there I was I was doing scrolling through reddit trying to weep into my overpriced avocado and toast.

[00:10:45] Kyle Risi: I had the lights off No electricity I had my hot water bottle tucked under my jumper when I came across an absolute gem of a life hack and you know me I love a bit of a loophole. So There's this guy who figured out that he could fly to turkey at the beginning of every single month And live in a five star all inclusive resort for less than what he had paid back home in manchester And like in the video you just see him hopping onto hotels.

[00:11:13] Kyle Risi: com He looks up five star hotels in turkey sorts by the lowest price and bam He finds a decent luxury hotel for 28 days flights included as well as that extra hold luggage all for 938 quid for the whole month for 28 days and he's poolside in turkey just enjoying the sun he gets his meals he gets his drinks he gets his snacks all included And here we are just struggling to heat up the house like a pair of chumps.

[00:11:37] Adam Cox: That's incredible. So does that include like, alcoholic drinks?

[00:11:40] Kyle Risi: Just curious. I think it probably does, right? If all drinks are inclusive, then normally it does. When we went to that one all inclusive hotel in Morocco, all drinks were included. Yeah, sure, they were all watered down and you had to drink a million drinks to get drunk, but you've got your drinks included. You're gonna stay hydrated, Adam.

[00:11:55] Adam Cox: One way or another. That is unreal, the fact that he is able to do that. every month, throughout the whole year as well. 

[00:12:02] Kyle Risi: There's nothing stopping us from doing it. Like, we work remotely. There's no reason why we couldn't just work out from the poolside, as long as there's Wi Fi, right?

[00:12:12] Kyle Risi: Like, home is where the Wi Fi is! Do you know what I mean? 

[00:12:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, no, that guy is savvy. I feel like I need to make some different life 

[00:12:19] Kyle Risi: choices. But honestly, Adam, like, when is this cost of living crisis going to ease up? And I just don't think, I don't think I can handle it too much longer, really.

[00:12:29] Kyle Risi: Let alone other people out there. But yeah, that was all my latest things. Another life hack from Kyle Recy who stole it from someone on Reddit who was some guy who watched another guy watching a video who then copied him and then I got it straight to my eyeballs and now it's straight into your ear holes.

[00:12:44] Kyle Risi: Yeah,

[00:12:44] Adam Cox: basically, sack off your house, move to Turkey for a month. 

[00:12:48] Kyle Risi: Done. What have you got for me today?

[00:12:51] Adam Cox: So, I've got a couple of things today. Uh, my first thing, I'm not sure if you've heard of already. Um, but have you heard of Donald Trump being the first president to sell sneakers, or trainers? Really? No, I didn't know 

[00:13:04] Kyle Risi: that. 

[00:13:04] Adam Cox: So he released a limited edition of some gold sneakers that sell out in under two hours.

[00:13:10] Kyle Risi: Really? Who's buying? I imagine it would be Republicans, old Republicans buying this, not like young teenage kids. Well, the thing 

[00:13:18] Adam Cox: is, they are like, um, high tops, um, and they're gold. Have you got a picture? Uh, you can kind of see it in that picture there. Oh yeah. So I don't see older republicans wearing them.

[00:13:27] Adam Cox: I mean they've gone for a colour that is probably closer to his skin colour. Yeah. Although, I would have thought they would have made it a tad more orange than that, but they've 

[00:13:35] Kyle Risi: gone gold. But the thing is though, he does quite like a gold aesthetic. When we went to Trump Tower, like, everything was just like, goldy, brassy in colour, right?

[00:13:43] Kyle Risi: All the mirrors kind of had that hue. And, yeah, so I think he's into kind of that kitschy, gold, gypsy, caravan style aesthetic, yeah, 

[00:13:53] Adam Cox: but I thought that was crazy that we've got a president out there that's doing this. But this was, uh, announced just after. Um, I think he was ordered to pay 350 million in a civil fraud case.

[00:14:04] Adam Cox: Um, where he owed some guy called E. Gene Carroll more than 80 million in a defamation suit. 

[00:14:10] Kyle Risi: Was it a guy? Isn't she a girl? Oh, that might be actually.

[00:14:13] Adam Cox: Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, this person. Um, so I just thought that was kind of bizarre and it's not the first thing he's actually sold.

[00:14:20] Adam Cox: He's also sold digital trading cards. Oh, yeah 

[00:14:24] Kyle Risi: stakes. Yeah. Yeah I remember about this. I remember the stakes. Yeah, I remember the nfts as well. They did really popular. Yeah. Um, yeah I don't know. He's got his fingers in a lot of pies. I guess that's what a lot of uh millionaires or billionaires do Right, they just Yeah.

[00:14:37] Kyle Risi: Drawing a quick 

[00:14:38] Adam Cox: buck from anything. And he's gotta, you know, cover the cost of this defamation suit. He 

[00:14:42] Kyle Risi: won't pay it. He won't pay it. He'll get out of it. Yeah, like he lives in Florida as well, so like they've got some really strict, um, homestead laws. But I imagine when you're rich, when you're, when you're ridiculously rich, you have teams of people that are employed just to protect your assets and to make you richer.

[00:15:00] Kyle Risi: So I'm sure there's something that he can do. Probably. Just like File for bankruptcy or something. He's done that before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:15:08] Adam Cox: Um, so that's my first thing And then my last thing is about a guy in Texas who has been caught stealing Scandalous. He was wearing a kilt okay, and 

[00:15:21] Kyle Risi: You don't wear underwear under there.

[00:15:23] Adam Cox: No, you don't because there's a reason he was wearing a kilt 

[00:15:26] Kyle Risi: Was he hanging things off of his knob? Not, 

[00:15:29] Adam Cox: no, he was, he was stealing, um, and the way that he would try and steal things, uh, was he would put them up his butt. 

[00:15:36] Kyle Risi: Gross. How, what was he, what was he 

[00:15:40] Adam Cox: stealing? Um, I think he was in, um, some kind of like, let me just double check this, I think it was a Antique store.

[00:15:47] Adam Cox: Yeah, that's it. And he would take things off the shelves. Mm hmm. And then he would put them up his bum. And then he would decide, Actually, no, I'm gonna take that out. No! And then he'd put it back on the shelf. 

[00:15:59] Kyle Risi: No! You're not doing that to steal things. That was probably the excuse, I was gonna steal it but then I just decided to put it back.

[00:16:07] Kyle Risi: He was sticking it up his bum for pleasure and then he got busted and using the excuse that he was stealing was the least embarrassing thing to say. 

[00:16:17] Adam Cox: Yeah, I mean, I guess. For sure. Yeah, I mean, he also said that, um, some of the things that he had a look at were a makeup brush. Uh, an antique bottle opener, a tobacco tent can, whatever that is, uh, and the total cost of the items that were Up his bum, then out again.

[00:16:32] Adam Cox: It was around, what, 200? Shit! But they all had to be thrown away because obviously Uh, you think? 

[00:16:38] Kyle Risi: And they all conveniently sound like things that, Ooh, perfectly fit up your butt! Apart from that tin can thing. Yeah, 

[00:16:44] Adam Cox: um, so he got, uh, arrested, and It was all caught on CCTV, by the way.

[00:16:49] Kyle Risi: I reckon there's some kind of fetish weird thing going on. Possibly, 

[00:16:52] Adam Cox: but he's now been freed on a hundred dollar bond. So if you're in Texas and you see a guy shopping with a kilt. Then just be on the lookout.

[00:17:01] Adam Cox: Don't touch 

[00:17:02] Kyle Risi: anything that he's touching. Don't touch it! Can you imagine if you got your kid with you? Eric! Put that down! So what's that doing in your butt? I saw the man doing it, mommy. No! You would think twice about, like, ever picking anything up again. I wouldn't go shopping again. 

[00:17:18] Adam Cox: Keep your anti bac.

[00:17:19] Adam Cox: That's one good thing about COVID, is it has encouraged us to use anti 

[00:17:22] Kyle Risi: bac. That's true, actually. Oh, that's disturbed me. I don't think I can carry on with the podcast. That's 

[00:17:27] Adam Cox: it. We'll just, let's just take a break from now on. That's it.

[00:17:30]

[00:17:33] Kyle Risi: So, the Heaven's Gate story, Adam. You ready? I'm ready. So, our story starts in the late 60s, early 70s. And it all began with a man called Marshall Hearth Applewhite Jr., he's also from Texas. Oh. So, I wonder if he knows a lot of Kilt Man. 

[00:17:52] Kyle Risi: So throughout Marshall's life, he went by Herth Applewhite and Herth had grown up in a very religious family. His dad was a Presbyterian minister and Herth's plan was to one day follow in his father's footsteps and become a minister of his own congregation. So straight off the bat, here we have the guy who has the seedlings to potentially spawn off the road and start his own cult.

[00:18:16] Adam Cox: Yeah, he sounds like a slightly odd upbringing and this is kind of how he's going to 

[00:18:20] Kyle Risi: take it. Yeah, and that's the thing though, like all these big cults typically start where they show kind of an aptitude for preaching and things like that. Yeah, and I 

[00:18:27] Adam Cox: guess it's, they probably scare people at a young age or those that are joining this about if you don't do this then you're not going to go to heaven. And it kind of creates this. So familiar 

[00:18:38] Kyle Risi: with the tactics of manipulation.

[00:18:40] Kyle Risi: I

[00:18:40] Adam Cox: think so, yeah. I think it's just kind of, um, it's that fear, isn't it? Because people want to be hopeful. About an afterlife. But if you then instill, well you have to do this, otherwise you'll never get there. Sure. And it helps coerce people. 

[00:18:52] Kyle Risi: Right, yeah, I guess so. So I guess it's true, the root of all evil is, of course, religion.

[00:18:59] Kyle Risi: So Herth goes off to study philosophy and theology at college, after which he meets his wife and Pierce, where they get married at the age of 21, and they have a couple of kids, and ultimately he was leading the classic life that was expected of a young man from his background. But then in 1968, Herff decides that his life was no longer working for him, on account of him being a closeted homosexual.

[00:19:25] Kyle Risi: Really? Yeah, big old homo. And he decides that it was time to call quits on his marriage. So he put the whole idea of becoming a minister on hold, and he decides that his life would be More richly lived on the stage. And he goes into musical theatre, specifically he wants to be an opera singer. And by all accounts, he is really good actually.

[00:19:46] Kyle Risi: So he's

[00:19:46] Adam Cox: not like wearing chaps and going, Yaaas! 

[00:19:49] Kyle Risi: No, I think that was, uh, that's a product of the noughties. Okay, fine. There's no, no yaasas yet, but the, the 1970s gay equivalent of it, like YMCA. Yeah, there's disco. Yeah, but no, he's not doing that. He's actually quite, he's really good. He's got this really rich baritone voice.

[00:20:03] Kyle Risi: But sadly, things don't really work out quite as he planned, really, because he doesn't really make it big as an opera singer. So he's struggling to find work and struggling to find a way to support himself. So he pivots to becoming a music teacher, which at first seems to be going really well. But then things start to wane as he started to find it really difficult to not sleep with his male students.

[00:20:29] Kyle Risi: He just kept getting caught and then getting fired and this just seemed to be a repetitive trend for him. So progressively, to sum things up, amid his divorce, him failing to make it as an opera singer, his sexual scandals with his students, the constant firings. He was broke and on top of this, he was also disowned by his father, because I guess he found out about the opera, right?

[00:20:50] Kyle Risi: The opera 

[00:20:50] Adam Cox: is the reason why he was disowned. Not those male students. No. 

[00:20:55] Kyle Risi: So, what happens is that Hearth then falls into a really really deep depression, which compounds itself even more when he hears the news that his father actually dies. And the fact that he never got a chance to reconcile with him tips him over the edge.

[00:21:09] Kyle Risi: And it ultimately results in him being hospitalized for like what they call deep emotional turmoil. So he's really hit rock bottom at this point. So when he's in hospital he meets a nurse called Bonnie Nettles. And they build up a really close friendship. Now, Herth will later tell people that he actually met Bonnie when he was just visiting a sick friend in hospital.

[00:21:30] Kyle Risi: But it seems pretty clear from the record that she was actually his healthcare practitioner. And this is where our story really kicks off, when these two meet. Bonnie was a few years older than Hearth, and at the time, she was already married to her husband, Joseph.

[00:21:45] Kyle Risi: They had four kids together, and just like Hearth, Bonnie was also from a very religious background, and was starting to also go through her own bit of a like a midlife crisis, if you will. So the pair really bond over their similar upbringing and their relatable struggles with mental health. 

[00:22:03] Kyle Risi: And in response to her desire to break away from her religious connections, and in a response to her desire to break away from her religious connections, she had started dabbling in kind of new age spirituality, like astrology, tarot cards, seances.

[00:22:15] Kyle Risi: She was mucking around with Ouija boards, which. The record shows you should never do.

[00:22:19] Kyle Risi: She's playing around with crystal balls and all kind of this renaissance thinking that was so prevalent during kind of the 1960s and 70s. She was really into that.

[00:22:29] Kyle Risi: And the story goes that when Bonnie met Herf in hospital, she instantly recognised him as the man that her psychic had predicted she was destined to meet. That would change her life and elevate her to greater things. And it was said that her saviour would be a tall man with light and fair skin. So very specific and very unmistakable.

[00:22:51] Adam Cox: I was like, hang on, tall and fair. That's basically probably 50 percent of America. 

[00:22:57] Kyle Risi: She was really desperate at this point. She's like, where is he? I've been waiting, yearning for my saviour. So the first kind of tall, fair haired man she sees, she's like, that's my saviour. That's it. That's him. There he is.

[00:23:09] Kyle Risi: So immediately Bonnie is drawn to him, believing that this chance meeting with this tall, fair haired man was meant to be fate, right? Yeah, 

[00:23:19] Adam Cox: but I'm guessing he's probably not that interested in you, Bonnie. 

[00:23:22] Kyle Risi: Not in that way. No, he's not been an opera singer. So as they got to know each other, Bonnie offered to do Herf's astrological birth chart for him. And as they continued to bond, they began to believe that they were actually soulmates. Drawing on the sense that because they connected so deeply, they must have known each other in at least one of their many past lives and that fate had brought them back together for a greater purpose.

[00:23:49] Kyle Risi: They didn't know exactly what their purpose was yet, but they decided that they needed to spend all of their time together Figuring that out, and so together they start researching all sorts of mystic sciences like auras, chakras, astral projection, and they become completely enamored by UFO and extraterrestrials in particular.

[00:24:12] Kyle Risi: So this is what 

[00:24:12] Adam Cox: they landed at, they're going, it's 

[00:24:13] Kyle Risi: this one. It's this one. Let's just shut my eyes and let me, um, this one! I feel 

[00:24:18] Adam Cox: like they've gone through the dictionary, they've like looked at everything from A, They got flipped through, go no, no, got to G, ghosts, no, no, and they end up with U, UFOs. Yeah, I 

[00:24:27] Kyle Risi: think it's this one.

[00:24:28] Kyle Risi: It's this one, it must be, it's fate, it's fate. My psychic said. By the way, of course, as you probably guessed, this is completely platonic in terms of their relationship. Strictly no sex, because, well, well, you know. He likes opera. Yeah, he likes opera. So after a while of this, Bonnie decides that she needs to quit her job.

[00:24:47] Kyle Risi: to work on discovering this higher purpose that herself and Herth were destined to fulfill. She also decides though to leave her husband and completely abandons her four children and she and Herth take off to start traveling around the USA learning about all sorts of different spiritual movements.

[00:25:03] Kyle Risi: To make money on the side they decide to try and open up a new age bookstore But of course that fails miserably they just knew nothing about running a successful business. So to get by they resorted to doing various manual labour jobs to help feed themselves. Most of the time they were kind of just living in various motels where they would just leg it without paying the bill and they would just end up leaving town.

[00:25:24] Kyle Risi: So, they kind of just like, got away with it really. Yeah. 

[00:25:27] Adam Cox: It seems quite odd. It feels like, for them to have bonded like this. There must have been something quite powerful drawing them in to kind of give up your family and look at this and go, this is my calling now.

[00:25:38] Adam Cox: Yeah. There's something that must have been, yeah, that really connected them, whether you believe in spirituality or not, to have this kind of friendship to jack everything else 

[00:25:47] Kyle Risi: in. I wonder if mental health might be playing a factor here as well. I mean, sometimes you just want to kind of just let go of everything and just run away, right?

[00:25:53] Kyle Risi: Maybe they've got the opportunity to do this. Yeah. So as time passed by, they fell deeper and deeper into their spiritual research, in inverted commas, by searching for their higher purpose. And they both felt that they were finally evolving into kind of a higher spiritual plane the more they researched.

[00:26:12] Kyle Risi: And this made them feel like they were ready to form their own spiritual religious philosophy. And so they set the wheels in motion. To start making plans to recruit a crew that they could lead right. They wanted to set up a congregation of their own filled with people that they could impart all their spiritual enlightenment They had discovered for themselves through kind of reading all this new age fandangled kind of pseudoscience Bullshit over the last few years and so they decide that they are going to start Of course, why wouldn't you land on that?

[00:26:47] Kyle Risi: Well, the important thing to remember here is that the idea of setting up a cult, especially during this time, is seen, is not, is not seen in the same way, or the same cultural lens as it's seen today. Like back then, joining a new religious movement, or as what we would often label as a cult, was seen as this kind of attempt to explore alternatives of lifestyles and spiritualities.

[00:27:05] Kyle Risi: So, it was more about like, Finding oneself, you know, breaking free from the constraints of traditional society and exploring new realms of spiritual and personal freedoms. 

[00:27:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, and I guess they're not calling it, oh, come join our cult. They're just talking about this is a movement. But they were. They were 

[00:27:22] Kyle Risi: even referring to it as a cult.

[00:27:23] Kyle Risi: I mean, it wasn't used in the same, it didn't have the same connotations as it did. It would have been a cult, yeah. Okay. It's because of stories like this, and stories like what happened at Jonestown, that we became to associate.

[00:27:37] Kyle Risi: The word cult was something more negative and sinister. Yeah. You know what I mean? So when Bonnie and Herf decide to set up their own religious movement, they were looking to help as many people to achieve spiritual enlightenment as they possibly could.

[00:27:52] Kyle Risi: And I'm telling you now they genuinely believe their own kind of hype and bullshit around this like and people did because they invested so much time Right so much time and effort into researching it and there's so much literature out there that they just yeah They just bought into it 

[00:28:07] Adam Cox: I think the thing is if you sometimes tell yourself I've seen this with people if you tell yourself a story or a narrative so much so you end up 

[00:28:14] Kyle Risi: believing it Yeah, for sure.

[00:28:16] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I get it.

[00:28:17] So they start traveling from town to town, usually hiring out the town hall for the day, and they will put up a bunch of posters and hand out various flyers.

[00:28:26] Kyle Risi: And these were kind of open invitations for people to just come along and just to listen to them speak. And their movement was ideal for anyone who would be interested in kind of learning more 

[00:28:35] Kyle Risi: about UFOs and their true nature in the universe. So they start hosting these seminars. And they would then present their belief system in the hope that they would be able to recruit some students to come and join their movement.

[00:28:48] Kyle Risi: And the main focus of these seminars was UFOs and ancient aliens, which at the time was super popular. And the structure was that they would start by first introducing themselves as the two. The two. Yeah, we are the two. As in As in the two. The two. We are the two.

[00:29:07] Kyle Risi: So it sounds sinister, right? Yeah. So Marshall would do almost all the talking during these seminars and Bonnie would just be the silent bystander standing next to him on stage just nodding in agreement with everything that he said. And it was clear for the entire audience to kind of see that as well and that was part of their tactic.

[00:29:26] Kyle Risi: It was like seeing those signs that you would see during a live filming of like a sitcom where a screen would indicate when you needed to clap, when you needed to boo, when you needed to cheer, 

[00:29:36] Adam Cox: etc. She's kind of influencing their Exactly. Or thought process. 

[00:29:40] Kyle Risi: Exactly. So Bonnie is just sitting there in front of the audience passively acting as that cue to nod and agree with Herth every time he talked.

[00:29:50] Kyle Risi: So Marshall would tell the group that he and his partner were the two witnesses, as in the two witnesses mentioned in the book of revelations in the Bible. Do you know much about the Bible? No, 

[00:30:00] Adam Cox: but they're saying that they're the two? 

[00:30:02] Kyle Risi: Yeah, they're the two witnesses. So. Cool. Cool. So the book of revelations, it's filled with all this symbolism and this kind of apocalyptic kind of imagery.

[00:30:12] Kyle Risi: And it's all about the end of times, like what's going to happen at the end of the world. So in the book of revelations, the two witnesses are described as the two people who were chosen by God to prophesy for 1260 days. And they've been given the power By God to perform miracles and to protect themselves against anyone who might come and harm them.

[00:30:34] Kyle Risi: So for instance, they would have the power to control the rain, and they would have the ability to kind of turn, uh, water into blood if they chose to. And they could strike the earth with various plagues as often as they desired. So that's the power that the two 

[00:30:48] Adam Cox: had. And they're saying Because the Bible is written years and years ago.

[00:30:53] Kyle Risi: Mm hmm. Just like 20 years 

[00:30:54] Adam Cox: before. Yeah. Yeah. And these are, these are the two that are going to be doing that. Yes. From all the thousands of years ago, or hundreds of years ago, this is what's been prophesied. 

[00:31:04] Kyle Risi: I mean, it's a prophecy book, right? It's a, it's a prophesying on what's going to happen at the end of time.

[00:31:07] Kyle Risi: So that's, that's, that's what those books do. When something's a prophecy, believe it or not, it's telling you what's going to happen in the 

[00:31:13] Adam Cox: future. I know, but the thought that they went. They're reading the Bible and went, oh, that's us. Yeah. We're the two. Yeah. Oh 

[00:31:20] Kyle Risi: my God. 

[00:31:20] Adam Cox: I can make it right. It makes sense.

[00:31:23] Adam Cox: Wow. Hello, the delusion.

[00:31:25] Kyle Risi: So as the story goes, the two witnesses will be killed by a beast that will come from the abyss and their bodies will lie in a public square of the great city and people from every corner of the world will be able to gaze on their bodies and they will refuse to let those bodies be buried. Wow. Alright.

[00:31:45] Kyle Risi: Eventually, after three days, those bodies will then resurrect, and this will terrify everyone apparently who sees this, and then a loud voice from heaven will call onto them and they will then ascend into heaven. The failed music teacher. Yeah, yeah, opera singer, closeted homosexual, famously God hates fags.

[00:32:04] Kyle Risi: So I don't know how he was going to get away with that, he'd be like, ah, the two, wait a minute, I smell homosexuality! I just smacked you! So yeah, I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen when that happens. 

[00:32:16] Kyle Risi: So in context of Heaven's Gate, Hearth and Bonnie Nettles stand up in front of everyone on stage and say, quote, We are the two witnesses in the Bible, we shall be martyred for what we're about to tell you, and it has been foretold in the scriptures, but it's okay, we will resurrect and we'll take all our followers up to heaven when that happens.

[00:32:37] Kyle Risi: So, we also want to explain to you what heaven is, because the meaning and translation of what and where heaven is, has been lost over the millennia. So we're here to tell you that heaven is actually a planet. And we will be returning to that planet very, very soon. All we need is to wait for our ride. And when that ride comes, you can come with us too. And that is what we're offering. 

[00:33:04] Adam Cox: If only they had Uber back then, because then they would know when the ride was going to come. How far it was away. 

[00:33:09] Kyle Risi: So they talk about how important it is that they get off Earth because Earth is about to be recycled and when this happens everyone left behind is going to die. And also, a shockingly high number of people decide to join this cult. Wow. 

[00:33:23] Adam Cox: So. Good going for them to kind of get people, I don't know, to believe in what they're saying. Yeah. I mean, I guess they might be Christians anyway, so maybe it's not a far fetch.

[00:33:27] Adam Cox: But I guess this whole, you know, we're going to be going on a spaceship. Yeah, yeah, 

[00:33:31] Kyle Risi: exactly. It's, I'm just, I couldn't believe how many people signed up. They're pretty compelling then. So they all bought into this belief that when the time was right, they would undergo a full physical transformation like a metamorphosis.

[00:33:44] Kyle Risi: Like a cat, and I'm talking physically, like a caterpillar would turn into a butterfly. After which you become this incredibly highly evolved alien and once that happens you will be ready to travel to the kingdom of heaven where you're going to live forever traveling around the galaxy, essentially. Now, the two didn't claim to know exactly when this apocalypse was going to happen but they said it would definitely happen very soon.

[00:34:09] Adam Cox: Question though, um, where in the 

[00:34:11] Kyle Risi: bible does it say about aliens? It doesn't, that's what they're saying in this is that like the idea of heaven is, is being lost in like over millennia. Right. So they're kind of trying to shoehorn that in I guess. But people are really kind of persuaded by the notion of UFOs and extraterrestrials because it was really famous, it's become really famous since the 60s, right?

[00:34:28] Kyle Risi: So people were really captivated by these, these ideas. And by, and it's obviously America is a very Christian country, so they were mixing these different Belief systems together and science fiction and it just, it just worked. It was clever. 

[00:34:40] Adam Cox: Everyone loves a crossover.

[00:34:42] Adam Cox: And we've got 

[00:34:43] Kyle Risi: Oh my god, have you heard? Garnt's doing a crossover with Roswell! 

[00:34:50] Adam Cox: Basically, that's what 

[00:34:51] Kyle Risi: it is. 

[00:34:51] Kyle Risi: So. The two were not claiming to know when this was going to happen, they were basically just saying that it was going to happen very very soon. But when it does happen the heavenly aliens were going to come down and they were going to whisk away the faithful few. 

[00:35:03] Kyle Risi: So immediately after joining it was very important for any new followers to get into a state of being ready as fast as they could and remain in the state of readiness because if they weren't ready And the spaceships arrived to collect them, they wouldn't be able to board the actual spaceship.

[00:35:18] Kyle Risi: So getting ready meant that followers had to let go of everything that made them human. Essentially, they had to give up their entire lives as they knew it. This meant that they had to surrender all their belongings, which they were required to sell.

[00:35:31] Kyle Risi: Not abandoned. Right. And then the proceeds from selling their belongings would then be kind of put into the group's collective fund. Okay. They were also required to give up their names and they would be given brand new identities by the two. The two. The two. And their new identities were really unimaginative really.

[00:35:50] Kyle Risi: They were pretty much given the same name but they were just kind of added on oddy at the end of it. So for example, you would have been given the name Odddy. A doddy. Yeah, a doddy. Like Adam, take off the last few letters and you've got a doddy. I would have been Coyote. Coyote, right. Keith would have been Keode.

[00:36:06] Kyle Risi: Keode. And your mum Sandra would have been Sandrode. Wow. Yeah, 

[00:36:10] Adam Cox: glamorous. Yeah, I guess they were like they thought up all these other ideas and like shit How are we going to do the names? 

[00:36:15] Kyle Risi: Yeah. Yeah quick. Oh, just just do this

[00:36:18] Kyle Risi: And they were also taught heavily about the collective mind which warranted refraining from thinking for themselves in any way everything that they did or said had to consider the wider group.

[00:36:29] Kyle Risi: So acting in a selfless way was considered of the most vital importance. Right, okay.

[00:36:35] Kyle Risi: And of course, as we've seen with a lot of cults, members were also required to cut off all connections to outside family, friends, or anyone that they were attached to, including their children. So it's a huge sacrifice. And shockingly, a lot of people were happy to do it. Wow. 

[00:36:51] Adam Cox: So you have to say goodbye to your kids in order to be in this cult. Bonnie did it. That's Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. she starred this whole thing. Exactly. 

[00:36:59] Kyle Risi: Yeah. And a lot of people did. they gave up their family and friends and their parents, all sorts. So it's shocking. 

[00:37:05] Kyle Risi: The cult also eradicated the concepts of sex and gender. Which meant that all physical sexual contact with others or with yourself was completely forbidden. With yourself. With yourself. The justification was that sex was a very human kind of weakness and that as higher level aliens, sex was completely unrequired since they were all immortal and so they would just never need to reproduce.

[00:37:30] Kyle Risi: So in preparation for the transformation from human to alien, the followers were required to adopt gender neutrality and complete asexuality to facilitate kind of this metamorphosis process that they were due to go under. Right. Okay. Now this entailed that all members also cropped all of their hair because of course you're all kind of like gender neutral.

[00:37:50] Kyle Risi: So they had like these really short buzz cuts. The men were not allowed any facial hair, no one was allowed to wear any makeup, no jewelry, and they were all required to kind of wear these really loose baggy trousers and loose kind of baggy shirts. Basically I'm just going to be blunt about it. They were turned into a hive of lesbians.

[00:38:08] Adam Cox: I mean, that's a very broad stereotype, but certainly 

[00:38:11] Kyle Risi: But it painted a picture, right? Yes, okay. You understand. So, when a new member joined the Heaven's Gate group, they were required to undergo, a master cleanse. which meant that they had to completely give up all food for the first few weeks.

[00:38:26] Kyle Risi: And during this period, they were only allowed to consume Like a mixture of lemon juice, Cyan pepper and Maple syrup for sweetness. Like a detox kind of thing. Exactly. Yeah, it was a master cleanse They called it and this was very important for a couple reasons. Firstly, it was believed that the eventual alien form Did not consume food as humans do right?

[00:38:47] Kyle Risi: So therefore members needed to train their minds to resist the desire for food and secondly This mental and physical preparation away from food was important because giving into the human desire for food once transformation had taken place would be potentially lethal to your alien being.

[00:39:06] Adam Cox: Right. 

[00:39:07] Kyle Risi: Because the alien form could only obtain energy by absorbing direct sunlight. 

[00:39:13] Adam Cox: I see. So not only is this a cult, it also doubles up as a weight loss 

[00:39:17] Adam Cox: program. 

[00:39:18] Kyle Risi: Yes, it does. And if you sunned your bum. You'd just get more nutrients, because more sunlight could absorb through your anus than it does through your skin.

[00:39:30] Kyle Risi: So, a lot of the time, they would just be kind of like, face down, butt in the air, kind of sunning their bum. 

[00:39:37] Adam Cox: Are you serious? 

[00:39:37] Kyle Risi: No, I'm not serious. 

[00:39:39] Adam Cox: I mean, it's a cult. Anything goes.

[00:39:42] Kyle Risi: So basically, this kind of absence from food was just a way to begin this transition and to mentally and physically prepare members for that kind of eventual metamorphosis and that transformation into their alien form.

[00:39:54] Kyle Risi: So to me, this all sounds bad, not only, so Bad. No. It's bat shit. So I mean, this all sounds really awful, not only can't you have sex, You lose your entire identity, you can't even enjoy food, all you get is sunshine. But the thing is though, the followers are more than willing to give up on everything in preparation for moving into this new higher plane of existence and if, and even after hearing all the bizarre doctrine and hearing the terms and conditions and all of this bullshit, they were still like, yeah, yeah, I want that for me.

[00:40:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah, 

[00:40:22] Kyle Risi: so like I said, as new members, they disappeared from their lives and they melded themselves within the group. Parents left their children, husbands left their wives, they sold everything they owned, and together they spent all their time just traveling around America helping the two spread the gospel.

[00:40:35] Kyle Risi: So as they toured the USA in 1975, they found themselves in a small town in Oregon, which attracted around 200 attendees to one of their seminars. And at the end of it, 30 people decided to sign up as members, and they just vanished into the group. So a huge number of a very small town just got sucked up into this cult.

[00:40:57] Kyle Risi: And as a result, the media started to develop this fascination with the group, where they were becoming known as the UFO cult and the media fixated Specifically on kind of their strange extreme beliefs which seem to meld kind of christian theology With the emerging fascination of like kind of science fiction and aliens and roswell and things like that 

[00:41:18] Kyle Risi: The media really focus on kind of their weird uniform that they had, their weird haircuts, the baggy clothes and the impact that the requirement of severing yourself from your family and friends was having on the family members that were left behind

[00:41:31] Adam Cox: yeah, if you can't even like reach out or anything, I mean, could they assume if you did join the cult, and you're saying what you said to your family, or do you want to join as well? There's an option of bringing them into it, but I guess they're like, no, this is crazy. I definitely don't want a part of this.

[00:41:46]

[00:41:46] Kyle Risi: yeah, some people did bring their family members with them or their loved ones or their friends and things like that. But yeah, the ones that decided not to stay, like, they were just left behind, they lost contact from them. And they were very clever with the way they did it because they were just traveling all the time.

[00:41:59] Kyle Risi: So if your family knew where you were, They only knew where you were for like those two weeks, 

[00:42:03] Adam Cox: right? I want, yeah, I just wonder whether these people must have been so lost to kind of have these people come to your town and to convince you that you are an alien waiting to be reborn and picked up. You have to really suspend your disbelief a little bit or have faith and hope in something better by going 

[00:42:22] Kyle Risi: along with these people. I mean we are talking about Oregon here. It's a dumpster fire. I've been told. You've been told. Yeah, but you're right. You're exactly right. Maybe people were just really desperate to find connection, to find meaning, to find spiritual enlightenment.

[00:42:38] Kyle Risi: I don't necessarily think it's that difficult to believe that these people could get sucked up into this. And also you find community, right? You find purpose. It's a compelling story. 

[00:42:47] Adam Cox: And I guess these two are really persuasive. And you put your trust and faith 

[00:42:53] Kyle Risi: in them. Yeah, because Bonnie's just there nodding.

[00:42:56] Kyle Risi: Telling you to agree. I mean, if 

[00:42:58] Adam Cox: someone nods, I'm gonna probably agree. Yeah, 

[00:43:00] Kyle Risi: it's true. You do. I used to do that when I was working in a restaurant. I would, uh, if I was really rammed. And I just didn't have time to give anyone desserts. I would, um After I clear the plates I then bring over the menus and I'll just like be shaking my head going So anyone for desserts like shaking my head?

[00:43:19] Kyle Risi: No, no, no, no anyone black. No, I'm really full. I'm like, okay. Thank you And I'll do the same I'd come over at the end if I wanted them to fuck off I'd be like so guys should I and I'd start nodding and like should I get you guys a taxi? Yeah Yeah, there's not in there. Yes, please. Oh, that's really nice of him.

[00:43:36] Kyle Risi: It's offering to get us a taxi Yeah, you just want to turn the table It worked

[00:43:42] Kyle Risi: So again, yeah, it's strange to see that this group was resonating with so many people and I guess it just like I said It speaks to that psyche of ordinary americans during this time who were just so desperate to belong to something bigger than themselves I guess desperate for purpose and Yeah, and Oregon is a dubstavire.

[00:43:59] Kyle Risi: So you hear. So I hear. So over time, Hearth and Bonnie, they would go through a few different names for themselves. For a while they went I love this bit. So for a while they went as Guinea and Pig. Oh my god, what the hell? Because they saw themselves as part of this greater experiment. Then they decided to switch to Bo and Peep.

[00:44:17] Kyle Risi: Okay. Any ideas why? 

[00:44:19] Adam Cox: Um, because, uh, they are Little Bo Peep, and they're bringing a bunch of sheep to a 

[00:44:24] Kyle Risi: f Yes! That's it. So they had a flock of sheep. Right. Sadly, when the media found this out, um, they probably took the piss out of them, because Oh, really? Why? Because on the flip side, the flock of sheep carry connotations of brain dead sheep.

[00:44:39] Kyle Risi: Oh, they're dumb? Yes. Exactly. So, after a while, they decided, let's pivot, and we'll call ourselves Doe and Tee. Do and Ti. Can you guess any? Oh, hang 

[00:44:47] Adam Cox: on. I do remember this. Weren't they a fan of musicals? Yes. And one 

[00:44:52] Kyle Risi: in particular. Yes. Do you remember which 

[00:44:54] Adam Cox: one? Uh, what's the one? Do, Re, La, Ti, Fa, Ti? That fast?

[00:44:59] Kyle Risi: That's it. Do, Re, Mi, Fa, So, La, Ti. And so, of course, Herf and Bonnie name themselves after the notes in that song. So, Do is at the beginning, and Ti is at the very end. And then everyone in the middle, are their followers. Right, okay. Yeah, so the idea is that. And is it the sound of music? I 

[00:45:18] Adam Cox: think so, yeah.

[00:45:19] Adam Cox: I think I remember Julie Andrews, like, yeah, doing the whole chords or 

[00:45:22] Kyle Risi: something. A deer, a doe, a female deer, a he, a he. Just like that. Yeah, that's the only line I know. 

[00:45:31] Kyle Risi: So yeah, so they change the name to Doe and Tee But again, the media was still just giving them a bunch of bad reporting and they started being associated with more of a sinister view.

[00:45:42] Kyle Risi: And so they did try to defend themselves. So they would send various spokespeople from the group to talk to the media on camera and claim that they were just trying their best to try and save. the human souls before the planet was essentially recycled. 

[00:45:57] Kyle Risi: But of course, as you can imagine, this just made things worse because of their belief system. Whenever they would try to explain on camera, it just made them just even seem more weird and bizarre. And so, Doe and T eventually decided that they had enough of trying to rescue the people of Earth.

[00:46:13] Kyle Risi: And they argued, That the world's ingratitude towards them had just ended up wearing them down So the group stopped doing public seminars and they just decided they were going to go Underground and just focus on the core group that they had they were done.

[00:46:26] Kyle Risi: So around about this time they had roughly around 200 members. And the numbers would fluctuate, like some people would leave, then they would decide to come back, and they'll bring a friend, sometimes they would leave and loads of people would go, but then loads of people would come back.

[00:46:38] Kyle Risi: It's just really weird. They were coming and going and coming and going. Yeah,

[00:46:41] Adam Cox: So there was this level of free will that they did have, but they're not being held at gunpoint or anything like that. 

[00:46:47] Kyle Risi: That's right, yeah. A lot of it was Banner choice, so he was of course manipulating them as best he could, but like, he could ultimately not stop them from leaving if they wanted to.

[00:46:57] Kyle Risi: Now, because of Now, because several years have passed, according to the prophecy in Revelations, the two, Doe and Tee, hadn't been physically killed just yet. Oh yeah, that's right, they should die. Exactly, as the Bible predicted. So, they explain this by saying that because Revelations was filled with lots of symbolism and metaphorical imagery, that their deaths, as prophesied in the Bible, was actually a, like a, a metaphorical martyrdom that they had experienced at the hands of the media, right?

[00:47:29] Kyle Risi: And this is convincingly explained because part of the prophecy was that the entire world would be able to look upon their bodies. And so through the power of media and television, This was actually true. 

[00:47:41] Adam Cox: Wow. It's like they're making it up as they 

[00:47:44] Kyle Risi: go along. Yeah.

[00:47:45] Kyle Risi: They're making it fit. And so as the prophecy goes, following the martyrdom, the day of reckoning would follow soon. And so that meant that the time was very, very 

[00:47:55] Adam Cox: close. Right. So they need to. 

[00:47:57] Kyle Risi: Hail a spaceship. Exactly. They need to get more serious. So as a result, they step up the preparations and this meant that there has become very, very strict with the rules.

[00:48:05] Kyle Risi: They implemented a strict no drug and no smoking, no alcohol policy and immediately seven And immediately 76 members decided to leave. I know, I'd be out. 

[00:48:14] Adam Cox: Yeah, no alcohol! This is like a holiday up until this 

[00:48:16] Kyle Risi: point. I'm, I mean, I'm shocked that they weren't allowed food, they weren't allowed sex, but they were allowed drugs and alcohol.

[00:48:21] Kyle Risi: For a long period of time. Yeah. That's weird. It's weird,

[00:48:23] Adam Cox: I would have given up way before then. 

[00:48:24] Kyle Risi: . Yeah, especially with the food. Yeah. So, so I guess like this is a bad move. So I guess allow, like, So I guess banning alcohol was a bad move on Doe and Tee's part because, remember, this was the 70s and the 80s, so to be receptive to a lot of these ideas that are being pushed by the cult, you were probably already smoking something anyway, right?

[00:48:42] Kyle Risi: So I guess a bunch of them just sobered up, they looked in the mirror and they were like Why am I dressed like a lesbian now? And then they're just like, I'm out of here. And they just left. Mum, I'll be home later.

[00:48:52] Kyle Risi: And also like a lot of the families, they did try and keep in contact with them in the hope that they could persuade their loved ones to kind of just snap out of it. But because the group were just constantly on the move, it was just difficult to keep up with the group. Some of them did try to send out kind of de programmers to try and rescue family members, but kind of most of these attempts were just kind of like pointless.

[00:49:08] Kyle Risi: Like it just didn't work. So it towards the end of the 70s, some of the members of the group kind of came into quite a significant amount of money which meant that this money found itself being funneled into the cult purely by kind of their own choice because of course they wanted, they wanted the cult to kind of do well so they surrendered that money over and this meant that they were able to up their living standards so they moved into some pretty flash houses but even though their living quarters saw an upgrade, life was still pretty miserable.

[00:49:37] Kyle Risi: I was 

[00:49:37] Adam Cox: gonna say. Wasn't the whole point to get rid of your humanity and then you're like, oh, but you can do it in this nice 

[00:49:44] Kyle Risi: penthouse I guess it was more about the space right so they could be together in a more comfortable kind of environment but um, but like in terms of food sex alcohol drugs and all these different things and giving up clothing and fashion was like Still off the table.

[00:49:58] Kyle Risi: What happens 

[00:49:59] Adam Cox: if Doe and Tee are like, having it large in their own room, their, or their section, with like, the drugs, the alcohol, and the food, and there's everyone else starving? Yeah, that's it. 

[00:50:11] Kyle Risi: I would be so mad. I'm leaving! I'll be back in a week. So yeah, just they were living in this big house. Everyone was still starving.

[00:50:19] Kyle Risi: Everyone was incredibly horny and Everyone was really extremely sleep deprived as well So one of Doe and Tee's techniques is controlling the class. They call them the class by the way Right so one of the Techniques was to keep everyone really busy for pretty much every single moment of the day and just like we saw with kind of Jonestown This was to eliminate any opportunity that they had to kind of just stop and think and reflect and 

[00:50:45] Adam Cox: Question why they're here essentially exactly 

[00:50:48] Kyle Risi: Everything had to be a procedure, like they would take basic day to day functions that you would never think twice about doing and they would prescribe these kind of really complicated processes to it to kind of help you focus your mind on the task and nothing else.

[00:51:03] Kyle Risi: So for example, for it, so for it. So for instance, brushing your teeth would be very precise in terms of the process, like they would dictate the exact number of strokes back and forth, the exact amount of toothpaste to use, and they would make kind of like this whole ordeal out of making your beds down to the kind of the most miniscule detail, and like even preparing food, like the small food rations that they have, like that was a huge operation in terms of like, preparing that, weighing everything out, being really meticulous with it, portioning it out, etc.

[00:51:31] Kyle Risi: And literally everything was dictated for them. So they had no creativity, no decision making kind of ability whatsoever. Nothing that would potentially lead to kind of Right. 

[00:51:46] Kyle Risi: And also, because a bunch of the members were struggling to keep their hands off of themselves, Right? Or, because, of course, remember, all physical contact was completely banned, They were prescribed a partner that would always be with them, So they could act as a check to make sure that nobody ever broke the rules.

[00:52:02] Kyle Risi: So, like, you were under 24 hour surveillance, making sure that, like, Everyone was keeping themselves honest . The mad thing is, is that this entire time, Bonnie, or T, was in constant contact with her kids this entire time. What? Yeah, what a bitch! 

[00:52:19] Adam Cox: This whole, so she never left them 

[00:52:21] Kyle Risi: completely?

[00:52:22] Kyle Risi: No, like she, obviously she wasn't living with them, but she was in constant contact with them. So she would kind of like, make secret phone calls with them, she would send them letters. And money on their birthday which must have been a huge kick in the teeth to the other members who like, are mandated to cut off all contact with their family members.

[00:52:40] Kyle Risi: It's just sick. 

[00:52:41] Adam Cox: So hang on, for her to do this she must Not by what she's 

[00:52:45] Kyle Risi: doing. Yes, so clearly she didn't believe her own bullshit. Clearly. 

[00:52:49] Adam Cox: So I was right She probably was in one of those rooms. She's like gorging on biscuits Someone knocks on the door Just a minute 

[00:53:03] Kyle Risi: I'm just wanking Don't come in here But yeah, so so, she would specifically tell her kids, though, right, get this, that they needed to make sure that they led normal lives, they needed to go to university, they needed to get good jobs, they needed to get married, they needed to have a family. So she was persuading, dissuading them from, like, getting involved in some of the bullshit that she was involved in.

[00:53:23] Kyle Risi: Again, because she didn't believe any of this. They 

[00:53:23] Adam Cox: don't do as I do. But then she must have Obviously, but she must have gone through something to still leave your family. It sounded like she did have this bond initially, but when did she start questioning it? And then she just stuck with 

[00:53:37] Kyle Risi: it? Yeah, who knows? Who knows?

[00:53:39] Kyle Risi: But also, possibly she just felt that she had just sunk too much time and effort into the cult, so it was possibly just impossible to just back out now.

[00:53:47] Adam Cox: I guess so, she's in too deep. But, and maybe she, all these people relying on her. She maybe felt some sort of guilt and wanted to be there for 

[00:53:56] Kyle Risi: them. That's right. And maybe, and remember, like you said as well, she had that strong connection with Earth. Maybe that's what was keeping her there. Maybe she really deeply loved him. Maybe more than just a friend. Maybe that's why she was there.

[00:54:08] Kyle Risi: But ultimately, I think that her behavior shows that she had potentially lost all faith. So in 1985, after 10 years after the cult had been set up, there was still no sign of aliens. Oh really? Yeah. Armageddon still hadn't happened, as prophesied in the Bible. Many of the members were still hopeful though, um, but they were just really exhausted and fed up of waiting.

[00:54:30] Kyle Risi: But then suddenly, tea, she dies. Really? From cancer, um, and it's a huge blow to the group's morale. They were finding it really hard to kind of rationalize this because remember, their entire belief system was set up around this premise that Ti and Do were these ancient, kind of immortal aliens that have been traveling the thousands of years and have been sent here to Earth. On a rescue mission. And if that was true, then how could T just, just die from cancer essentially. 

[00:55:02] Kyle Risi: So Doe pivots in his attempt to make sure nobody loses faith. And he announces that T's death was just her true alien self, leaving her human body, referred to as the human shaped meat sack, and that T was going to go travel back up to the heavenly planet.

[00:55:20] Kyle Risi: And she was going to bring back the spaceship to earth. And then collect the rest of them and when she arrived They would all now leave their bodies and then board the spaceship so the story has changed and that's significant because It was an almost a complete rewrite from what they had been told before It was no longer a case of this kind of chrysalis moment where they would kind of like metamorphosize their current body into the alien body.

[00:55:49] Kyle Risi: It was now going to be a case that they would leave their current body and then go up in spirit to the spaceship where they would then be able to enter into the alien body. So it was like a transfer of a spirit almost, if you will. Bullshit. Bullshit. But, I mean, yeah, it works, they believe it. 

[00:56:07] Kyle Risi: So, to solidify their new understanding, Doe decides to invite all members of the group to show their devotion to him by marrying him in a mass group wedding ceremony with every single member of the cult all marrying Doe.

[00:56:23] Kyle Risi: And so during the ceremony they're all just kind of given these weird tacky gold rings. Essentially every single member of the group is now married to Doe. I just 

[00:56:32] Adam Cox: think, I mean, okay, fine. I mean, he's kind of fooled them for this long. What, what's a fake 

[00:56:37] Kyle Risi: wedding? Yeah, exactly. It's, it's hopefully going to be soon now, right?

[00:56:41] Kyle Risi: Like, tea must be coming back on that spaceship. Yeah, 

[00:56:43] Adam Cox: has he given like a timeline on that? It could be anywhere between 5 and 50 years. 

[00:56:47] Kyle Risi: They wait 27 years. 27 years? Yeah, they're in this group for 27 years.

[00:56:52] Adam Cox: Oh my god, think of how much more fun they could be having. Yeah, 

[00:56:56] Kyle Risi: think of all the wanking.

[00:56:57] Kyle Risi: Well, I was 

[00:56:58] Adam Cox: just 

[00:56:58] Kyle Risi: thinking food, holidays. Oh, and food, yeah, yeah, yeah, food. 

[00:57:01] Adam Cox: Spending time with 

[00:57:01] Kyle Risi: people you like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't thinking about wanking. Okay.

[00:57:07] Kyle Risi: So are you ready for the gross bit of the story? 

[00:57:10] Adam Cox: I think I know where this is heading. 

[00:57:12] Kyle Risi: So obviously the number one rule of getting into heaven was the enforcement of a strict no cum policy. Well, this was becoming a really big issue for some of the members, especially the guys. And I mean, it was always a problem, but now it was getting a lot harder because having a check partner with you, uh, 24 hours a day was making it really difficult for you to kind of just nip behind the curtain and rub one out.

[00:57:35] Kyle Risi: And this meant that the whole house has just been plagued with boys having constant wet dreams 

[00:57:40] Adam Cox: It's like a teenager I don't know like 

[00:57:43] Kyle Risi: bachelor pad So they decided that they needed a solution to this right and after some time the most obvious solution was to just remove their balls. Obvious, yes. So the idea was floated, so the idea was floated around the group and more than a dozen opted to have their nuts 

[00:58:05] Adam Cox: chopped off. I, I mean, I question these people because what they've done, but sure, if they thought that was the best thing that they should be doing 

[00:58:15] Kyle Risi: right now. So one of the members was previously a nurse who had assisted during surgeries before she obviously kind of quit and joined the cult.

[00:58:22] Kyle Risi: So because of this, they elected her as being the person with enough experience to kind of like, just do it. 

[00:58:30] Adam Cox: Hang on, so she's assisted surgeries? Castration surgeries or just surgeries in general? 

[00:58:35] Kyle Risi: I think just maybe, I don't know, vasectomies, I don't know. Fine. 

[00:58:40] Adam Cox: Yeah. It feels very much like I watched a YouTube video. How hard is it to put a roof up or whatever? 

[00:58:45] Kyle Risi: Do you know what, it probably is something like that. She probably was just like, kind of like, well I, well I wasn't quite, I was, I was a receptionist. Yeah. Yeah, I used a scalpel too. Yeah, open up a letter one time because my letter opener was like just over there.

[00:59:00] Kyle Risi: So what's, yeah, yeah, I got this. And she was, she was like, I've got this. Right. So surprisingly, it doesn't go well. First of all, the guys were all going to be awake throughout this entire process. And they didn't have anesthesia, so they were going to feel it, and secondly, everyone was free to watch the entire process.

[00:59:21] Kyle Risi: No! And the plan was that the nurse, in inverted commas, would simply slice open the ball sack, pop out the testicle, slice right through the connected tube, and somehow clamp down the tube, and then sew that sucker back up. And when that happened, the bag just kept filling up with blood and so the first volunteer just almost bled to death.

[00:59:44] Kyle Risi: Gross, eh? Gross! Almost 

[00:59:47] Kyle Risi: bled to death. Almost bled to death. So, the other guys that were watching were like, uh I don't want that. Yeah, yeah, like, uh uh. Yeah, one of the guys was like, I almost threw up. And the four of the other twelve were like, No thanks, I'm like backing out, I'm not doing this. 

[01:00:04] Kyle Risi: But eight of them were like, Okay, let's, uh, let's go through with this, but I'm not letting Nurse Ratched anywhere near my nuts.

[01:00:11] Kyle Risi: So they arranged to hop across the border to Mexico to have an actual professional do it. And apparently, none of them regret it. Even the guy who almost bled to death, he was like, Yeah, I'm glad I did it. How terrible!

[01:00:24] Kyle Risi: So, then time marches on and now we're into the 90s, okay? Still, T hasn't shown up with the spacecraft, Shouldn't she be here by now?

[01:00:36] Kyle Risi: Yeah, she should be! Like, heaven's not that far! So, like, by the 1990s, a bunch of high profile, kind of notorious cults had seen kind of very public ends to their organisations. Of course, we've already seen, by this point, uh, Jonestown. They'd also seen a couple instances where the government had tried to intervene and shut down some of these cults that were considered dangerous at the time. And so. The members of Heaven's Gate starting to become more and more paranoid and fearful that they were going to be either persecuted or shut down by the U. S. government. Also, it had been years and years and there was still no sign of salvation on the horizon. Right? Tea hadn't come back. 

[01:01:17] Kyle Risi: And so many started to question if Doe was actually just a charlatan. That was until July of 1995. When two astronomers observing the night sky peered through a telescope and spotted an enormous celestial body that had not been seen by Earth for almost two and a half thousand years.

[01:01:43] Kyle Risi: This was the Hale Bopp comet. Oh, okay. And it was hurtling towards the Earth at 100, 000 miles per hour and would approximately come within 122 million miles of earth clearly visible in the northern hemisphere for the next 18 months So this was a pretty big deal and very big news all across the world because for a certain period of time you'd even be able to see it during the day.

[01:02:09] Kyle Risi: Do you remember the Hale Bopp comet? So 1995? 1995, yeah. I was 

[01:02:15] Adam Cox: 8, so no. 

[01:02:17] Kyle Risi: You don't remember it? Not at all. I would have remembered it. I think 1996 or around about that time was when I had very clear vivid memories but I wouldn't have seen it because it would have been in the Northern Hemisphere. But I remember very clearly hearing and remember it being reported on the news.

[01:02:31] Kyle Risi: It was huge. I was probably 

[01:02:32] Adam Cox: watching Power Rangers or something. Oh, God's 

[01:02:34] Kyle Risi: sake. You needed to get a day job. Even at eight. At primary school. That's my job. I'm a primary school kid. Um,

[01:02:44] Kyle Risi: so of course, like, when the Hale Bopp comet came about, it didn't take long for a bunch of crackpots to start asserting that the arrival of the new comet actually meant something way bigger. Because when these people studied the available photographic images of the comet, there was very clearly something trailing behind within its kind of slipstream That's the kind of like the little tail that it has.

[01:03:05] Kyle Risi: Yeah, and that something was actually a spacecraft They actually said yeah, not that not the cult. This is other crackpot people in the world 

[01:03:14] Adam Cox: somewhere else. Oh, okay. So they instantly clearly put the 

[01:03:18] Kyle Risi: two and two together. Yeah, but obviously not all the pictures contained the evidence of anything in the slipstream.

[01:03:25] Kyle Risi: So a conspiracy theory started to circulate that the government was editing out signs of the spacecraft. Right. So it was no surprise that Doe then decided to cling on to this and he was like This is it boys, we're going home and T has finally arrived to take us to heaven and of course, the conspiracy that the spacecraft had been edited out by the government was just another attack on their mission as kind of these martyrs that would be kind of persecuted by the media, further just proving their prophecy, essentially.

[01:03:57] Adam Cox: Cause I was gonna say, like, how has, um Like, because he's come up with this whole religion and cult, and fair enough, he believed in it, whatever, but he's had to pivot the story so many times, for him, I was just going to say, like, how did he go, oh, that's a spaceship, but because someone had said that in the news, this made him believe this reality, he's kind of 

[01:04:21] Kyle Risi: conjured up.

[01:04:21] Kyle Risi: Yeah, yeah. I guess he's just desperate now, like, he needs, time is literally running out for him, right? People are losing faith. it's been 27 years, where the fuck is T? Do you know what I mean? I don't know, maybe he's just getting desperate and he's like, this is probably my only chance. Yeah, right. The most plausible thing that could happen is now happening and I need to spin it.

[01:04:42] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I guess.

[01:04:44] Kyle Risi: So finally they decide to put out one final call to the world to join their class via the new internet web page that they'd set up, HeavensGate. com stating that This was the world's final chance to escape the inevitable destruction of the earth and go up to heaven, but sadly they didn't get a lot of takers actually, like They were just basically really badly trolled on the internet. I think they were like the original troll, internet 

[01:05:09] Adam Cox: trolls. I can't imagine there was much going on in the internet back then anyway. Like, in terms of, it didn't really take off in the same way. 

[01:05:15] Kyle Risi: Well actually, remember like how big the Beanie Baby forum was at the time? There weren't that many websites.

[01:05:20] Kyle Risi: So, the people that were on the internet, they were all on these websites. Yeah, I guess 

[01:05:25] Adam Cox: it's quite groundbreaking then for like a cult to be having their own website. Yeah, we have a website. What have you 

[01:05:30] Kyle Risi: got? Uh, we have like 12 buckets of cyanide. Okay, yeah, that's pretty good. That's pretty good. We don't have that.

[01:05:36] Kyle Risi: So over the next 18 months they spend a lot of their time getting ready for their final ascent So towards the end of 1996 they rent this huge mansion in Rancho Santa Fe which is like north of San Diego southern, California and This is where they spend their final few months like living in this big massive beautiful palace 

[01:05:59] Kyle Risi: And this time was different to how they've spent the last 27 years because they were allowed to have fun for the very first time in years, they went on a bunch of trips like they went to SeaWorld to see Free Willy, right, in San Diego, they went to a trip to Las Vegas, um, and they went all out for their Christmas celebrations because they were allowed to eat and also the rule about not having any personal possessions just went out the window because when Christmas came around they were all just splurging just giving each other gifts and 

[01:06:28] Kyle Risi: The reason why we know all this happened is that the class documented all on videotape because they wanted to document the final few months and they spent the last three decades trying their best to not be human, so to them this is like, they'd earned the right to spend the last bit of time that they had being superhuman.

[01:06:45] Kyle Risi: You know what I mean? Of course no sex though, because like half of them didn't have any nuts, so. 

[01:06:51] Adam Cox: Yeah, I mean, it still doesn't make sense. It feels very hypocritical. It does. Because you've told someone when they first joined that they got to drink this weird honey Teef shit. Yeah for two weeks because you've got to get used to like not eating because as when you become an alien You can't eat. Yeah, but then just before you become an alien Splurge. Exactly. Binge eat. 

[01:07:11] Kyle Risi: I guess because they've also changed the kind of the narrative that you no longer kind of Transform into an alien which was the reason for giving up on the food, right? Right But yeah, but then why did that not ring any bells? I don't know. I just, it's messed up. It's weird. It's really messed up, but they, these people believed it. 

[01:07:29] Kyle Risi: So in March of 1997, just as the Hale Bopp comet passed closest to Earth, coincidentally, this was around about Easter, which in the Christian faith was all about rebirth, so the timing couldn't be more perfect. So all of the members Filmed their exit messages and they would take turns talking directly to the camera saying kind of their final goodbyes And you can see all of this footage on YouTube and they're just filled with kind of these people talking really emotionally about how excited they were to be going home 

[01:08:02] Kyle Risi: There were some members of the group who decided they were actually going to stay behind on earth so that they could continue to spread the gospel.

[01:08:10] Kyle Risi: Again, this is also why we know about so much that has happened because after all this kicked off, they were there to tell the story. But really, I think these people are like, yeah, I didn't really, I was just here for the drugs for a while. And then you got me sober and I realized I need the drugs to function. And I was so infunctional that I just. Didn't, I just, I just couldn't leave. I just didn't want to go back home. 

[01:08:35] Adam Cox: Yeah, I just, I couldn't be bothered. The washing up was still there. Yeah. I, you know, I had to take out the rubbish. Um, that, yeah, that makes sense. So people kind of chickened out, basically.

[01:08:43] Adam Cox: Because I thought The world was going to end. But they've gone, oh don't worry, I'll spread the word. And they're like, but there isn't going to be a planet. No, no, no, but, you know, for the remaining few days I'll let people know. Just in case they still want to join. In case there's going to be like another taxi in 50 years.

[01:08:59] Kyle Risi: Now that I hear some of your perspective Yeah, I just don't get it. I thought I got it. 

[01:09:03] Adam Cox: I think I'm pretty good. I don't think I'm ever going to join a cult.

[01:09:07] Kyle Risi: So in the video they try their best to just reassure their loved ones from their previous lives that they knew exactly what they were Doing and that they chosen this And that they were not being coerced in any way. But the thing is that while the class are filming their final goodbyes, you've got to remember that Doe is behind the camera the whole time, right?

[01:09:27] Kyle Risi: So like once you've said something in front of somebody else, like you're far less likely to kind of, kind of renege on that. Like a lot of what they were also saying on camera was word for word what Doe had been telling them over the years. And they were just parroting that on camera. They're brainwashed. Yeah, for sure

[01:09:45] Kyle Risi: So these messages really showed the dependency that they had on him So I don't think that they had really any free will even though he maintained the illusion that they did. This was a bounded reality that they were kind of Living in with this kind of closed world where their perspective and perception of what was happening was highly controlled and doctored. 

[01:10:06] Adam Cox: Yeah, and I guess if you're quite susceptible to this. Maybe it is those that are a bit weaker wills. Yeah. If I can say that. That would be. I don't know, they're not going to challenge it, they're just going to go along. Whereas some people clearly did challenge it and go, No, I'm not going to get castrated.

[01:10:21] Adam Cox: And I guess for those people, he perhaps didn't have that power or authority to keep them or influence them. But for those that he did hold power over. They never 

[01:10:29] Kyle Risi: challenged it. No, exactly. So it's kind of, you just whittle them down eventually until you have the mentally weakest people.

[01:10:35] Adam Cox: Yeah, and actually getting rid of the bad eggs, i. e. those that don't agree, is probably a good thing because that's going to stop other people questioning it or whatever. 

[01:10:44] Kyle Risi: You're just going to get more Inspiring free thoughts, if 

[01:10:47] Adam Cox: you will. Yeah, more agreeable people within that group. 

[01:10:50] So when you see these heartbreaking messages, reassuring the world that they were doing this all by their own free will, it just was incorrect. It just wasn't true because it's free will within the bounds of what Doe had said. For instance. He'd say to Lum, like, you've come this far, like, it'd be a shame for you to now back out now.

[01:11:09] Kyle Risi: How will you assimilate back into normal society? Remember, the world is going to end. Like, you've lost contact with all your family and friends. Do you think that they'll just welcome you back with open arms? He would also say like, think about how the world views us. Do you really want to step out from this and into the ridicule that the world has bestowed on us over all these years?

[01:11:30] Kyle Risi: So when you frame free will within these bounds, it might seem like you're making A free choice, but actually it's a very coerced choice. Do you know what I mean? Get the sense that they truly believe what they're saying.

[01:11:42] Kyle Risi: And also to them, remember, they didn't believe they were dying. Remember, they, they weren't choosing death. In fact, they were choosing the opposite. They were choosing life because they were choosing to get onto the spaceship where they could go and live. So it wasn't a suicide to them at all. Yeah, it was living happily ever after.

[01:12:03] Kyle Risi: Yeah, exactly.

[01:12:05] Kyle Risi: What I find really interesting is how they kind of often cited existing science fiction doctrine into kind of their goodbye messages which which just kind of shows that they must have kind of featured really heavily in their ethos. 

[01:12:16] Kyle Risi: They would kind of like use loads of Star Trek references like beaming up or how they refer to themselves as the away team. So they had all this terminology that was deeply rooted in science fiction which I just find really interesting it gives you an insight into what they believed in their ethos and what they lived by it was really interesting.

[01:12:34] Kyle Risi: And then, just as Hale Bopp swung by Earth. They followed their procedure for their ascension. They put on all their special little uniforms for their graduation Which was of course a black tuxedo shirt They had also custom embroidered patches on their sleeves which kind of had this little triangle that said Heaven's gate awaiting so that's probably the most famous Motif that they have and you can google that and see what that looks like.

[01:13:01] Kyle Risi: They would wear black trousers and a brand new pair of Nike trainers specifically for this occasion as well 

[01:13:08] Adam Cox: They splashed out on some 

[01:13:09] Kyle Risi: Nikes. They splashed out some Nikes. Yeah, you probably got a good deal because you like bought 39 pairs, right? 

[01:13:15] Adam Cox: Yeah, I guess so 

[01:13:17] Kyle Risi: So over the next three days members would take turns helping each other to consume a lethal mixture of barbiturates mixed with apple sauce or pudding They would then wash that down with a bunch of vodka.

[01:13:30] Kyle Risi: And after this, they would tie a plastic bag around their heads to asphyxiate themselves as they lay in their bunk beds. And I assume that the other members kind of just lagged behind kind of. And I just assumed that the other members who lagged behind would then just place that famous purple shroud over their torso and face As those members then passed away 

[01:13:48] Kyle Risi: So Doe had put in a process to make sure that their bodies would be found within a few days because he had posted a package to one of the Members who decided to stay behind And when they received this package that would have been the signal for them to then alert the police anonymously 

[01:14:03] Kyle Risi: and of course everyone around the world when it finally was discovered that they had all taken their lives It was completely fascinated by this just because of the strange details like the night trainers their triangle embroidered kind of badge on their sleeves saying heavens gate awake team The purple shrouds of their bodies and the fact that they're all lying fake and the fact that they're all lying face up on their bunk beds like really somberly like little Like little mummies.

[01:14:27] Kyle Risi: Just really bizarre to people. But also because they were carrying a little bum bag with them. A bum bag. Or as they say in the USA, a fanny pack. Fanny pack. With their passports in it and exactly 5. 75. 

[01:14:42] Kyle Risi: There's a lot of speculation about why the 5. 75. And it turns out that there was a short story by Mark Twain where he wrote a line that it costs 5. 75 to ride on the tail of a comet. So they put 5. 75 in their bum bag along with their passport because they're going on this voyage, right? They're boarding a spacecraft and what do you take when you board a spacecraft?

[01:15:04] Kyle Risi: You take your passport. Yeah, 

[01:15:06] Adam Cox: and that's 5. 75 because that's not going to get you far. Not in the 90s. 

[01:15:11] Kyle Risi: Well, maybe it does. I don't know. Well, I mean, I mean, it's a Mark Twain kind of quote that was written maybe 100 years ago, right? So 5. 75 probably a lot. I don't know.

[01:15:21] Kyle Risi: So this event was the biggest mass suicide on US soil ever, and the sad thing is that most of the families only found out about this on the news. At first a lot of the families were relieved because the reports were coming through saying that the bodies were all male because kind of of their clothes and their haircuts.

[01:15:39] Kyle Risi: But that was short lived because as you know, like they all wore the same uniform. They all had the same haircut and eventually The spokespeople who opted to stay behind started to come forward to explain what had happened But of course it was just ridiculed by everyone like it featured heavily on all the late night tv shows Who just kind of like do skit after skit after joke after joke.

[01:16:01] Kyle Risi: They're just heartbreaking like 39 people died. Yeah. At the heart of this, right? It took their lives because they thought that was the better option. 

[01:16:08] Adam Cox: Yeah, I mean, I've joked about it because of the ridiculousness of it, but it's still incredibly sad that people died at the, at the, at the result of this.

[01:16:16] Adam Cox: Yeah. Um, I guess they, I don't know, there was, they chose this even though they were perhaps coerced, but still, it's not, it's not nice. 

[01:16:25] Kyle Risi: And I just wonder, like, if this had happened today, would the media ridicule it in the same way? I feel like we've grown up a little bit. I think we'd 

[01:16:33] Adam Cox: try and be more understanding of their point of view. I think we could find the absurdity of the things that they've done, and maybe we'd laugh at those specific things as we've done today.

[01:16:43] Adam Cox: Yeah. But I don't, I think we'd perhaps approach it differently. And I do wonder what would have T done? Because She got cancer. Would she have gone through with this or would she have chickened out? 

[01:16:55] Kyle Risi: So in the months that followed four members that decided to stay behind ended up taking their own lives I guess maybe they felt they could still catch up with the comet or Maybe they felt like they couldn't assimilate back into normal society. Maybe they bought all of those bullshit Maybe being in the cult however misguided For that amount of time possibly gave them that sort of higher purpose in this world And now that was gone.

[01:17:22] Kyle Risi: So maybe they felt that the only option was to just take their own lives So who knows we'll never know I guess did 

[01:17:28] Adam Cox: they? Do the similar sort of thing, the goodbye message? 

[01:17:32] Kyle Risi: They followed, they tried their best to follow that procedure.

[01:17:34] Kyle Risi: Um, wore the same uniform, same bum bag with a 5. 75. And they just went ahead and All these years later, there are still people who consider themselves still part of Heaven's Gate, even today, and there's still people that believe that dough and tea, and, 

[01:17:47] Kyle Risi: and there are still people, and there are people that believe that dough and tea, And all the rest of the class are on the heaven planet. They believe that they're there now. And many of them regret that they didn't act when they had the opportunity. So, sadly, Hale Bopp Comet won't be coming around this way again until 4397.

[01:18:06] Kyle Risi: Yeah, so it's a long time that you gotta wait, I guess, but then the world was also supposed to end, right? So the fact that the world hasn't been recycled should give you the vindication that you need to go. Vindication!

[01:18:20] Adam Cox: Um, I did see, because you're right, in terms of people are still fascinated, and something I came across, because I could always remember the trainers, the fact that they were all wearing Nike trainers, Um, I don't think Nike, I think they probably got, I don't think they got any sort of negative press at the time or that you can buy them But yeah, or you can you still keep by that particular model?

[01:18:35] Kyle Risi: Yeah, I think they're called when I was checking it out Nike Decades or decades or something. I think it's like decades. 

[01:18:40] Adam Cox: So I wondered if they Discontinued it because I could see that people were trying to get an old pair and then bringing them back to life Right in order to try and have a pair of Heaven's Gate trainers Wow But yeah, perhaps they brought them back.

[01:18:52] Adam Cox: Anyway, yeah 

[01:18:54] Crazy isn't it?

[01:18:56] Kyle Risi: And that is the story of the Heaven's Gate cult So if you are interested in learning more about the story, then there's loads of stuff out there, like there's a four part documentary called Heaven's Gate, uh, Cult of Cults And in it they show some incredible footage that kind of, they, they show some really incredible footage that they've used from some of their exit interviews Uh, there's footage of some of the seminars When they were recruiting people in the early days, of course, lots of news footage from throughout the 20 year kind of history leading up to the suicide is all in the documentary as well, including interviews with people who were members of the cult and also their families as well.

[01:19:30] Kyle Risi: So it's really interesting to kind of get that insight from them, um, about what went on. There's also a really great nine part. Podcast series called Heaven's Gate and it goes into a lot of detail from the very beginning right up to the very very end And of course, there's the Heaven's Gate website, which still exists and it's still actively recruiting members but they haven't really updated it in regards to kind of the styling and I think that's possibly because Like it's still being stuck in the 90s acts as kind of the relics from the earlier days.

[01:20:04] Kyle Risi: Like it's important that it maintains its old kind of timely style. I don't know. Yeah, I 

[01:20:09] Adam Cox: just went on there because I've never thought to actually go on the website. And yes, it's a very 90s Background, which is repeated all the time, so it looks like space and just very colorful writing. Yeah. Interesting, 

[01:20:20] Kyle Risi: I might join up. Hey, that's the thing though, people are still actively kind of joining. They're wanting to be members. I can't speak for why, or what their motivation is for wanting to join.

[01:20:29] Kyle Risi: To me, it's just become part of kind of like, the occult. Like, people are more interested partly due to its infamy. Do you know what I mean? Rather than what they believe in, believe in their ethos. Yeah, so you've got a few things that you can check out if you want to hear more about the story. Yeah, I

[01:20:46] Adam Cox: mean the the first tape that you can watch at 70 minutes And it's called Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It's Recycled.

[01:20:54] Adam Cox: Mm hmm So yeah, it's this kind of doom that it's kind of trying to suggest, but yeah, that's that's fascinating. It is 

[01:21:00] Kyle Risi: fascinating, isn't it? I really love the aesthetic of that site. We should bring back more websites like that. 

[01:21:06] Adam Cox: Yeah, it's uh, it's kind of a bit of a headache 

[01:21:07] Kyle Risi: actually. Should we run the outro?

[01:21:10] Kyle Risi: Let's do it. And so we come to the end of another episode of the compendium, an assembly of fascinating and intriguing things. If you found today's episode both fascinating and intriguing then subscribe and leave us a review.

[01:21:22] Kyle Risi: But don't just stop there. Schedule your episodes to download automatically as soon as they become available. Remember, we're on Instagram at the compendium podcast. So stop by and say hi, or visit us at our home on the web at the compendium podcast. com. We release new episodes every Tuesday. And until then, remember in the vast universe of belief. Sometimes the lines between devotion and delusion is as thin as a comet's tail. See you next time. 

[01:21:52] Kyle Risi: See ya.